But what should I get? Right now I have a crappy Canon PowerShot. It's a fine family vacation type camera, but I want better looking pics. I think I have a good eye for shots, but I get really irritated with the PowerShot. A friend of mine recommended a Nikon d40 (I think), because that's what she has and likes it. I've heard those have auto-focus issues though. Anybody know anything about the Canon Digital Rebel?
I want a new camera
We have the Nikon D50
And it is just a spectacular camera. Take a look at the pictures at http://www.professorgreg.com/dogs/fieldtrip/index.htm. Those were back when we first got the camera. You are not going to ind a better deal quality wise than the D40.
Greg
Lenses
My step-dad is a former professional photographer. He has offered me all his Minolta lenses for free. Are lenses compatible with most cameras or are they brand specific?
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Nice dogs
We used to run agility with one of our dogs. I love action shots of them. Very fun.
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we have a Canon digital
we have a Canon digital Rebel that is a few years old. It takes great pictures but manual mode is a PITA and manual focus is even worse since it's so sensitive and there isn't any feedback through the viewfinder except to see if it's in focus.
So I usually end up using it as a point-n-shoot.
Matt, Matt, Matt... holla atcha' boy!
First of all, repeat after me:
"It ain't the camera, it's the shooter."
You first of all need to rid yourself of the misguided, and somehow widely popular, idea that a new camera will make you a better photographer. You can drop $3000+ on a full-frame Canikpenasonicony beast, with 70-200mm f2.8 glass, Alien Bees's ring flash, and all the rest of that gobbledy gook and it'd all be useless if you don't know how to take a good picture. Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Sony, they all make wonderful cameras, but brand doesn't make a photographer, talent and skill does.
Along those same lines, know your camera. I could shoot most of the same things I already do with your Powershot. You just need to understand the mechanics of photography and realize that a camera is a camera is a camera, the only thing that makes the picture is the monkey standing behind it. There are certainly some limitations to what you can do with a point-and-shoot, but if you're just taking the occasional snapshot, a P&S is all you really need.
Now if you are looking to get a little more along in your photographic efforts, a DSLR is the way to go. Shooting your kids means you'll need some good fast glass. We're talking f4 or better. My best lens is a 50mm f1.7 and it's my go-to kid lens.
The internet is a cesspool of misinformation and bias towards brand and manufacturer, don't give into it. Talk to shooters, handle some kit if you can, and make the best decision you can for you.
Personally, I was like your dad. I too shot Minolta in my film days and loved it. I had intended to stick with Minolta when I transitioned into the digital realm, but that was at the same time that the camera division of Konica-Minolta was bought out by Sony. As a consumer, I've been burned by so many Sony products over the years, there was no way I was going to take the chance.
After some research, I settled on Pentax. My reasons are many, but a lot of it came down to the fact that unlike any other DSLR out there, the Pentax still sports the K mount. That means any lens ever made to fit the K mount will work on my cameras. That 50mm f1.7 is a Pentax-M which means it's a manual focus lens. The best part, I paid a whole $15 on it shipped on eBay. The ability to grab somewhere in the neighborhood of any of the 3+ million lenses that have been produced to fit the K mount since it's introduction in 1975 makes for a very happy daddy, and photographer. And then there's the adapters so I can use any of the Pentax 645, 6x7, or M42 screw mount lenses as well.
Take it all with a grain of salt, or a shot of whiskey, and I'll try to answer any questions you may have.
-Will
gamingwithbaby.com | all your diapers are belong to us
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Gaming
I knew you'd throw in on this!! I totally agree it's the monkey behind the camera that makes a picture. That said, I just don't like how my camera functions. I hate the way it takes 3 seconds from the time I snap to the time it snaps. Eighty flashes later and I have the back of someone's head. Take the flashes away, and the shutter speed is so slow, everything's a blur. My friend that just got a Nikon has beautiful pictures. I've seen before and after of hers, and there is a clear difference.
BTW, half the shit you said, I don't understand.
full-frame Canikpenasonicony beast, with 70-200mm f2.8 glass, Alien Bees's ring flash
DSLR
Shooting your kids means you'll need some good fast glass. We're talking f4 or better. My best lens is a 50mm f1.7
What does f4 mean?
What does DSLR mean?
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I agree with GWB, some of my
I agree with GWB, some of my best pictures were taken with a $20 fixed focus camera. You just have to know how the camera works and have a good eye.
I had an old manual Vivitar SLR (with a needle meter) that I used for over 30 years before the shutter wore out, I could make that camera do anything because I knew how it worked. I bought a used Canon A-1 to replace it and never could figure out what to do with the information it was giving me.
full-frame Canikpenasonicony
full-frame Canikpenasonicony beast, with 70-200mm f2.8 glass, - Very expensive camera
Alien Bee's ring flash - Very fancy Flash
DSLR - Digital Single Lens Reflex (The type of cameras you are discussing)
Shooting your kids means you'll need some good fast glass. We're talking f4 or better. My best lens is a 50mm f1.7 - Lens that6 lets in a lot of light so can therefore take faster shutter speeds.
What does f4 mean? - A measurement of how much light the lens lets through. Lower numbers indicate a better lens.
I have to disagree with the downplaying of the advantages of these cameras. Although you can get great compositions with any camera, these cameras make the likelihood of a good composition and picture quality mush higher. Tier instant response and greater speed between pictures (Up to 2.5 pictures a SECOND) make them valuable. Also you cannot compare the quality of the 2 most important parts of these cameras, The lenses and the CCDs (Think of the CCDs as the film). They focus after, you can put a good flash on them and a seemingly endless number of advantages.
Greg
We have Nikon D70
We have the D70 and it is great. It has a auto-focus that works great! My understanding is the D40 has the same auto-focus as the D70, its just the D70 has more manual options (which we rarely use).
We also have the Nikon Coolpix L5 for travel, but usually end up using the D70 because we are spoiled with it. We have had people comment about our pictures looking professional. The D40 came out after we had the D70 and we would get the D40 if we could do it again. Its cheaper too.
Disagree all you want
But if all one is going to is take the occasional snapshot, a DSLR is overkill. There are cameras out there, many of them pseudo-DSLRs, that have little to no shutter-lag (which is impossible, all shutters lag).
Photocritic has a good and bias free article on entry level DSLRs. Take of it what you will. But think long and hard before you drop over half a G on a new camera. As I said, a new camera isn't going to make you into a great photographer. So go crack a book or two, visit some learning websites, and learn what you're doing before you start shooting your more than half a G camera and wonder why the pictures you're taking aren't any better than what you were doing before.
-Will
gamingwithbaby.com | all your diapers are belong to us
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The other thing to remember
The other thing to remember about SLRs is that they are BIG (DSLRs are even larger than 35mm film cameras) so you might find yourself not bringing your camera as much because it's such a pain to carry around.
Clarification
So what EVERYONE is saying is, nothing beats a disposable camera. OK, I'm going to go buy 40 disposables.
It's clear as day. Thanks.
j/k
I guess what it comes down to for me is, I don't just take family pics. I want something better. I want to take a photography class at the local community college here after I get the feel of a better camera.
Once I settle on a camera, I'm gonna bug you guys about lenses more.
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if you want to learn
if you want to learn photography make sure your camera has a manual setting and has the controls on the lens, where they should be, and not have to press 4 buttons and spin a wheel to adjust the f-stop like on my wife's digital rebel.
Also, This book is pretty good at explaining how a camera thinks.
Second Kev's book recommendation
It's a wonderful book, even though I don't have a copy.
Chances are, if you're serious about taking a photography class at the local CC, they're going to want you to shoot film. At least the one's around here do. Honestly, shooting manually is the only way you're going to learn. Manual lens, manual flash, manual, manual, manual. If you don't, then you're relying on the crutch that automatic settings to do for you what the camera thinks best and not what you think best. (Get the feeling I've been in these discussions before? Just got back from my monthly photography guild meeting and the issue of full-frame versus crop sensor came up. There's a fun "discussion.")
I'm uber passionate about photography. I love photography. I'm starting to make a little coin on the side from photography. I could, and would, talk photography all day. But, I'm very much a hardcore, old-school shooter that remembers shooting film, having to worry about composition and focusing on getting the shot. Digital has taken a lot of that out of the hands of the shooters, and my arguments/discussions about photography as a whole are biased in that regard.
So yes Matt, invest heavily in disposable cameras. :)
-Will
gamingwithbaby.com | all your diapers are belong to us
my flickr
We have both
Well then, here's my question
Quality is not an issue for me since I am such an incredible Pulitzer Prize winning photographer superior to everyone else here in ability and modesty. :-)
My problem is that frickin' lag time. I don't want it. Matt said he doesn't want it. I'm not sure who does. So... Will, Greg, anyone else: I guess I get to be the one with a stupid question. I personally want an affordable digital camera with no lag time. Is there such a beast?
The digital camera that I have is about to go, and I want a new one; but I hate dropping a couple of hundred bucks on something if it's a piece of poo.
Help.
sfoster
I would check GWB's post above with the link. I am not aware of any point and shoot style digitals without the lag, but he did mention that there were some. It has been a selling point of the DSLRs in the past. You really are going to be starting at 5-600 for those units.
Greg
.
The issue of shutter lag is misunderstood. What it really comes back to in most cases is going right back to knowing your kit and it's strengths and limitations.
The problem with many point-and-shoot (P&S) cameras is that there is a lot going on that you don't think about. Most of the P&S cameras on the market will not shoot unless it is dead dog convinced that something is in focus. It may no be what you intended, but something is. Often this problem is exasperated in conditions where people use P&S cameras most, low light, fast(ish) action photography. In other words, indoors chasing their kids around. It's all comes down to the amount of light reaching the sensor.
What were really talking about here is the auto-focus system. This is the one area where P&S cameras can not hold water to a DSLR. Take your average P&S, the glass at the front of the lens might be 10mm wide on average, 20mm on a really high end one. Compare that to the smallest piece of glass that I own that has a 52mm front on it. There is a lot more light reaching the sensor, increasing the likelihood that I will capture exactly what I want.
In addition to all of this, often you aren't shooting your P&S to it's full potential, leaving it in some scene mode and never giving it a second thought to it. Now how do all of these things relate? The camera is doing exactly what it was designed to do, taking a picture when certain parameters are met, not before it. That shutter isn't lagging, the camera is doing exactly what it was made to do. DSLR are just as prone to this if you let them think for you, just no where near as bad.
You can certainly get around a lot of this by biting the bullet and purchasing any of the consumer level cameras listed on the link above. Warning though, several of those camera, in particular those real close to the $1000 mark are not considered consumer level cameras.
Being partial to Pentax, I hardily recommend the K200D for the availability of a lot of cheap glass available for it. I've played with it, and it is essentially a watered down version of my K10D. (Samsung makes the sensor for the Pentax K20D and K200D and have released their own line of DSLRs that are identical to Pentax and can sometime be had for a few bucks less. They use the same glass.)
As for the rest of the list, I hear good things about the Olympus E410, but have not handled one in person. It is the smallest DSLR available, but keep in mind that there aren't a lot of lens available for them as Olympus is new to the DSLR game.
I know a few people in my photography guild that shoot with the Nikon D40 and they love it. I've handled it and squeezed off a few frames with it and it's a great camera. If I wasn't so heavily vested in Pentax glass, I'd shoot Nikon.
The Digital Rebel series as a whole is considered really hit or miss by everyone in my guild. There are several people that shoot with it, but even they wish they'd gone with an offereing from Nikon or Pentax. I haven't be impressed with it the times I've shot with it, compared to my K10D or the Nikon 40D.
-Will
gamingwithbaby.com | all your diapers are belong to us
my flickr
Shutter lag
The main reason for shutter lag in the PnS cameras is that the sensor has to be cleared before it can take the picture. The SLR doesn't have that lag since it just flips the mirror to let the light fall on the sensor. That's why the SRL screen isn't used unless reviewing a shot.
I do think there might be a SLR now with an active screen but they are very rare.
Film?
Have you considered shooting with a manual film camera? That will get your eye together and teach you the principles of exposure. DSLRs are great, but most people use them as big expensive point and shoots. Don't get me wrong, automatic is a good thing. It's also a good thing to know why your photos look the way they do. The Pentax K1000 is a great workhorse camera, and they can be had for *gasp* less than $100 with a good lens in great condition. I love shooting film.
I have a Pentax 67II. It's a medium format film camera. It's manual focus, but auto (aperture priority) exposure. It takes higher resolution photos than almost any DSLR on the market. You can pick a 6x7 up for $500. And really, the quality of the photos will blow your mind.
Maybe going with a film camera is terrible advice. Who knows? It works for me.
All that said, the D40 is a great camera and a great value. I'd love to have one.
Pentax, sweet!
Pentax got some mentions! They typically don't seem to get a lot of love. I have an *ist DS and a little point and shoot Optio. A K1000 and PZ-1P, along with about 10 lenses, collect dust in the safe. Nothing against film, digital is just too damn convenient.
This Nikon that everybody is talking about is a great camera, no question about that. Nikon makes great gear.
.
Sure. I wish I could splurge on a DSLR. Only a few things suck worse than getting your film back from processing only to find that you've set the iso on your camera incorrectly and blown every exposure.. I'd love to have that instant access to my images. But, body couple of lenses, flash, etc, etc and you've gone through 3 grand. Not in the cards right now. I *love* my 6x7. I wouldn't trade it for any digital camera. Well maybe a hasselblad.. (;
When is someone going to make a digi back for our old film SLRs?
Sorry to derail the thread.
Matt.- Check tigerdirect.com for deals on DSLRs. I've seen the new D40 there for $250 (body only). They always have some blowout going on DSLRs. Worth keeping an eye out for sure.
Pentax to Pentax
Not as expensive as you'd think since you already shoot Pentax glass. All you really need is the appropriate adapter to convert the 6x7 to K-mount, a body, and you're set. I've got two K10Ds and an *ist DL, two Vivitar 285HV flashes, fleabay transmitter and two receivers for the flashes, two cheap tripods for light stands, damn good monopod and ball-head, 135-400mm f4.5-5.6, 50mm f1.7, 18-55mm f3.5-5.6, and 28mm-80mm f3.5-5.6 macro lens. Beautiful thing about shooting Pentax is the fact that I can throw just about any lens ever made for Pentax on my cameras. My only complaint, and it's a really minor one, is the limit of 3fps on the K10D, but that only comes into play when shooting airshows and hockey. And my hockey woes would be easily solved by faster glass (got my eye on 70-200mm f2.8, but it's a bit pricey right now).
When Sony bought out Minolta's camera division, the exact reason why I chose Pentax over Nikon or Canon is the availability of lots of cheap old glass. And a lot of it (like my 50mm) is completely manual, so it forces you to think.
And we will never see digital backs for SLRs. Just doesn't make good fiscal sense when they can just rope you into a DSLR anyway. I need to start shooting some film, if for nothing more than my creative health. But shooting a DSLR and a SLR is counter intuitive since I shoot my K10Ds like manual cameras anyway (because the "P" mode does not mean "professional"). I want a TLR.
Matt is tearing up Flickr with his 40D. And the flickr SAHDs group is doing well.
-Will
gamingwithbaby.com | all your diapers are belong to us
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Very easily actually.
Couple of options really. The body does TTL metering just like a film SLR would, so it's just a matter of setting the camera to "M" flipping the autofocus to "M," hitting the green button (this is on the K10D and the new K20D, not sure about the K200D) to stop down the lens which will set your shutter speed, and blammo, you're set. As far as checking your focus, there is a focus indicator, or you can buy an aftermarket focusing screen and drop it in, but my eyes and the focus indicator do just fine.
-Will
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Canon Rebel XTI
I used to be into photography in high school with a film camera I recently bought a Canon Rebel XTi to try and get back into it as a hobby but have failed miserably. I do not regret the purchase because even in automatic the picture quality and speed will kill any point and shoots that I have ever owned or still do own. I have owned several cameras over the years and amassed probably 3000 pictures with them over the years. With the Rebel I just transferred 1800 pictures the last time.
With kids it is hard to get those precious moments so for me anything that makes it easier the better.
Also a DSLR was necessary for me because as the kids get older the picture are taken from further away ie. sports and school plays where I need lenses
For under $700 ( @ bhphoto) with a lens and shipping it was by far one of the best purchases I have ever made.
CANON IS THE BEST
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PLEASE
Keep the "_______ is the best" commentary to yourself. Camera type and manufacture is meaningless, the monkey behind the lens makes the image.
-Will
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GWB...dude, you make me laugh.
But, he's right. I have the Canon Rebel XT. Like TS, I think this camera is my best camera, but this monkey has since learned a thing or two about photography. So, yes, the camera is great, but the operator has a bit more experience.
I've also owned Ricoh and Olympus. At the time, I thought those were great cameras, too.
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